Comments on: Top 6 Friday why Lisbon was voted down http://www.thedossingtimes.com/blog/2008/06/13/top-6-friday-why-lisbon-was-voted-down/ Blogging...instead of doing something useful. Thu, 15 Jul 2010 02:41:23 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Im Fernrohr: Die Top 6 Gr http://www.thedossingtimes.com/blog/2008/06/13/top-6-friday-why-lisbon-was-voted-down/comment-page-1/#comment-3078 Im Fernrohr: Die Top 6 Gr Thu, 19 Jun 2008 14:52:49 +0000 http://www.thedossingtimes.com/blog/?p=1757#comment-3078 [...] sinngemäßer Übersetzung, ergänzt durch Zusatzinformationen. Heute: Simon von The Dossing Times über das irische EU-Referendum, 13. Juni 2008 Die Top 6 Gründe für die irische [...] [...] sinngemäßer Übersetzung, ergänzt durch Zusatzinformationen. Heute: Simon von The Dossing Times über das irische EU-Referendum, 13. Juni 2008 Die Top 6 Gründe für die irische [...]

]]> By: yednnek http://www.thedossingtimes.com/blog/2008/06/13/top-6-friday-why-lisbon-was-voted-down/comment-page-1/#comment-3072 yednnek Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:50:20 +0000 http://www.thedossingtimes.com/blog/?p=1757#comment-3072 Pat, some great points there - not least of all re: Bush who is the perfect example of democracy not working, having lost the 2000 popular vote. The Irish governemnt has a lot to answer for in so far as it failed to adequately inform the public of the facts. Equally however the public have played their part in this farce (regardless of the result) as most people were too lazy to inform themselves. The public were happy to listen to half-truths and follow pre-conceptions about politicians. I read numerous quotes of "i don't understand it so I'm voting no". That's not democracy. Pat, some great points there – not least of all re: Bush who is the perfect example of democracy not working, having lost the 2000 popular vote.
The Irish governemnt has a lot to answer for in so far as it failed to adequately inform the public of the facts. Equally however the public have played their part in this farce (regardless of the result) as most people were too lazy to inform themselves.
The public were happy to listen to half-truths and follow pre-conceptions about politicians. I read numerous quotes of “i don’t understand it so I’m voting no”. That’s not democracy.

]]> By: Paul http://www.thedossingtimes.com/blog/2008/06/13/top-6-friday-why-lisbon-was-voted-down/comment-page-1/#comment-3063 Paul Sun, 15 Jun 2008 15:09:21 +0000 http://www.thedossingtimes.com/blog/?p=1757#comment-3063 Sarkozy's Threat on Saturday was diabolical... If Cowen does not react to this obvious bullying then we need a new Taoiseach... Sarkozy’s Threat on Saturday was diabolical… If Cowen does not react to this obvious bullying then we need a new Taoiseach…

]]> By: Pat http://www.thedossingtimes.com/blog/2008/06/13/top-6-friday-why-lisbon-was-voted-down/comment-page-1/#comment-3062 Pat Sun, 15 Jun 2008 14:49:40 +0000 http://www.thedossingtimes.com/blog/?p=1757#comment-3062 I have never voted for Europe nor against Europe, main reason being that I have always had concerns about a large corporate entity where lobbying in Brussels as in Washington is the real power and I have no confidence that "one man one vote" has any place in a modern media savvy world and we live in economic entities as opposed to political entities. In an hour interview with Eamon Dunphy the only reason Declan Ganly of Libertas gave for encouraging a "Vote No" was that the Treaty was bad for Ireland, bad for Europe and bad for Democracy. Now what does Declan Ganly mean by democracy; is it 27 commissioners for 27 countries? Do we need 27 commissioner portfolios along with their staff, jobs for the boys. Isn't this exactly what we don't want, so let's say we have a German Commissioner for Trade, we have an Irish Commissioner for Agriculture and in this instance the UK doesn't have a Commissioner, do you really believe that the UK will have any less influence in Europe with regard to Trade than the Irish who have a Commissioner for Agriculture. Declan Ganly also says that we should directly elect the President of the EU. Nobody suggests that we should directly elect our Taoiseach. People talk about the direct election of the US President as a great example of democracy and George Bush was elected not once but twice. In my humble opinion George Bush has left a world which is a much more dangerous place and he has tried to bully entire nations into submission. Any crackpot with money to spend on PR could get elected President in an area as diverse as 27 European countries. Imagine Abramovich or some popstar as president. The Lisbon Treaty isn't perfect but now we are trying to bully/blackmail the rest of Europe and Sinn Fein are laughing and looking forward to saying, "It was us who forced Europe" they still don't understand goodwill, although they did learn that Adams was better kept in the background. I do think there is an issue of trust in our politicians and no it didn't start a couple of months ago but with our ex prime minister making it up as he goes along and changing his story each day depending on what new information the Tribunal unearths without his help, I do believe cynicism is at an all time high and rightly so. And yes, the explanation of the Treaty was appalling and the Farmers' Unions played a game which influenced a lot of people and it was too late when they decided to tell farmers to vote yes. Comments!! I have never voted for Europe nor against Europe, main reason being that I have always had concerns about a large corporate entity where lobbying in Brussels as in Washington is the real power and I have no confidence that “one man one vote” has any place in a modern media savvy world and we live in economic entities as opposed to political entities.
In an hour interview with Eamon Dunphy the only reason Declan Ganly of Libertas gave for encouraging a “Vote No” was that the Treaty was bad for Ireland, bad for Europe and bad for Democracy. Now what does Declan Ganly mean by democracy; is it 27 commissioners for 27 countries? Do we need 27 commissioner portfolios along with their staff, jobs for the boys. Isn’t this exactly what we don’t want, so let’s say we have a German Commissioner for Trade, we have an Irish Commissioner for Agriculture and in this instance the UK doesn’t have a Commissioner, do you really believe that the UK will have any less influence in Europe with regard to Trade than the Irish who have a Commissioner for Agriculture.
Declan Ganly also says that we should directly elect the President of the EU. Nobody suggests that we should directly elect our Taoiseach. People talk about the direct election of the US President as a great example of democracy and George Bush was elected not once but twice. In my humble opinion George Bush has left a world which is a much more dangerous place and he has tried to bully entire nations into submission. Any crackpot with money to spend on PR could get elected President in an area as diverse as 27 European countries. Imagine Abramovich or some popstar as president.
The Lisbon Treaty isn’t perfect but now we are trying to bully/blackmail the rest of Europe and Sinn Fein are laughing and looking forward to saying, “It was us who forced Europe” they still don’t understand goodwill, although they did learn that Adams was better kept in the background.
I do think there is an issue of trust in our politicians and no it didn’t start a couple of months ago but with our ex prime minister making it up as he goes along and changing his story each day depending on what new information the Tribunal unearths without his help, I do believe cynicism is at an all time high and rightly so. And yes, the explanation of the Treaty was appalling and the Farmers’ Unions played a game which influenced a lot of people and it was too late when they decided to tell farmers to vote yes. Comments!!

]]> By: DOUBLEDUTCH http://www.thedossingtimes.com/blog/2008/06/13/top-6-friday-why-lisbon-was-voted-down/comment-page-1/#comment-3061 DOUBLEDUTCH Sun, 15 Jun 2008 09:39:17 +0000 http://www.thedossingtimes.com/blog/?p=1757#comment-3061 Dear Irish, Thank you from the bottom of my heart for voting NO to those anti-democratic bastards who are undermining the democratic rights of all Europeans! Jacob. Dear Irish,

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for voting NO to those anti-democratic bastards who are undermining the democratic rights of all Europeans!

Jacob.

]]> By: Paddy http://www.thedossingtimes.com/blog/2008/06/13/top-6-friday-why-lisbon-was-voted-down/comment-page-1/#comment-3059 Paddy Sat, 14 Jun 2008 16:52:39 +0000 http://www.thedossingtimes.com/blog/?p=1757#comment-3059 Cian wasn't much help, was he? "The Treaty had three flaws that made it lose. One was the loss of a commissioner the other was its length." Er, that's two, not three. "...The idea that Ireland would lose what little control they had scarred people." Yeah, scars are scarey. Add point 7: the treaty itself, the reason that many people voted No. A document that is almost impossible to read - that's suspicious in itself. Thanks to the consolidated version (why wasn't this presented to the voters?), it was possible to perceive the massive shift towards a federal EU state. By the way, why did anyone vote Yes, apart from unthinking acceptance of government, media, and institutional propaganda? Cian wasn’t much help, was he?

“The Treaty had three flaws that made it lose. One was the loss of a commissioner the other was its length.”

Er, that’s two, not three.

“…The idea that Ireland would lose what little control they had scarred people.”

Yeah, scars are scarey.

Add point 7: the treaty itself, the reason that many people voted No. A document that is almost impossible to read – that’s suspicious in itself. Thanks to the consolidated version (why wasn’t this presented to the voters?), it was possible to perceive the massive shift towards a federal EU state.

By the way, why did anyone vote Yes, apart from unthinking acceptance of government, media, and institutional propaganda?

]]> By: Luis http://www.thedossingtimes.com/blog/2008/06/13/top-6-friday-why-lisbon-was-voted-down/comment-page-1/#comment-3058 Luis Sat, 14 Jun 2008 09:54:08 +0000 http://www.thedossingtimes.com/blog/?p=1757#comment-3058 Many thanks to the Irish for being the voice of millions of EU citizens who voices were shut down! Luis Sarmento Porto, Portugal Many thanks to the Irish for being the voice of millions of EU citizens who voices were shut down!

Luis Sarmento
Porto, Portugal

]]>